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Saturday, March 6, 2021

Airbus faces rebuke as Qatar Airways A380s now expected by year-end

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Qatar Airways A380

An Airbus executive has said that Qatar Airways will not receive its long-awaited A380 orders for another five months, prompting the carrier’s CEO to warn that he was placing no more orders for new aircraft from the company.

According to the Wall Street Journal, Akbar Al Baker issued stinging rebukes of both Airbus and Boeing this week while speaking at the Farnborough air show in the UK, criticizing them for delays in orders and the poor quality of their jets.

Qatar Airways was expecting the delivery of the first three of its total order of 13 A380s in June, to be flown first to London Heathrow, and then to Paris and New York.

However, the order of the world’s largest passenger aircraft has been repeatedly delayed to meet the airline’s “exacting specifications” for the interior of the cabin, Airbus said.

A380 issues

Speaking to reporters at Farnborough, Tom Williams, Executive Vice President of Programs at Airbus, said the company was working to fix issues Qatar Airways had with the aircraft.

Reuters reports that he told journalists, “I don’t see it (delivery) being an issue for year end.”

He added that the delay involved issues related to the cabin, including paint in some areas having a bubbled texture, joint lines on wallpaper and some gaps in non-textile floor coverings believed to be in the galley.

Williams also told the WSJ that existing floor coverings in this area are being removed and new flooring laid, adding: “It’s a bit of a job because it has to be done carefully. ”

The plane maker is working to ensure that the national carrier’s A350s also meet these exacting requirements, he said.

Qatar Airways has in recent years had a significant presence at the UK air show and was planning to display its A380s at this year’s event.

Qatar Airways' Boeing 787 at Farnborough
Qatar Airways' Boeing 787 at Farnborough

However, it canceled the appearance of the super jumbo last week, and has focused on displaying the Airbus A350, which Qatar is planning to launch globally by the end of 2014, as well as the A320 and Boeing 787 Dreamliner.

The Dreamliner had its own problems last year due to technical problems that caused the planes to be grounded worldwide for three months.

At the time, Al Baker said Boeing would be compensating Qatar Airways for the issues. The airline has so far received nine of its total order of 60 of these planes, which cost $207 million each.

Al Baker put pressure on Airbus for the late delivery of the A380s, saying in an interview with Reuters Insider TV: “I’m very disappointed with Airbus that they did not bring my A380 to show at this very important air show.”

Earlier this month, Japanese carrier Skymark Airlines said its delivery of A380s was also facing a 6-month delay due to problems with the aircraft’s interior.

Qatar would not be the only airline in the region to have A380s, as Emirates has already bought 140 of them, and Etihad is due to receive its first of the aircraft this year.

777X order in process

Meanwhile, Al Baker said that while Qatar had a letter of intent for an order of Boeing’s 777X aircraft, this had yet to be translated into an official order.

“We are not finalizing any orders, we have already an LOI (letter of intent) and that’s where we’re going to leave it for the time being,” Reuters quotes him as saying.

According to Bloomberg reports, Qatar is planning to place an order of 50 of the aircraft, in an $18 billion deal.

Thoughts?

71 COMMENTS

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Firas Zirie
6 years ago

“My A380”? I can’t imagine any CEO of any other company in the world to refer to his company’s assets as “his”.

Abdulaziz Al-Sulaiti
Abdulaziz Al-Sulaiti
6 years ago
Reply to  Firas Zirie

I was just about to point that out!!

Al-Baker thinks Qatar Airways is “his” and that’s a big problem. Someone should offer him public speaking and professional etiquette classes…

Enceladus
Enceladus
6 years ago
Reply to  Firas Zirie

My A380…my cabin crew…

Win
Win
6 years ago

‘Exacting specifications’ … such a polite way of saying … ‘pain in the ass demands’ … lol …

ex_pat
ex_pat
6 years ago

This is getting tiresome.

There’s high standards and there’s being ridiculous. I don’t see Emirates complaining about their 50 A380 aircraft.

As for not ordering more aircraft, perhaps this has more to do with the need for them and QR’s ‘profitability’.

Restie
Restie
6 years ago
Reply to  ex_pat

Typical expat mentality:

“Can’t find their brand of sugar from a village in the Yorkshire moors in the local Al Meera? Obviously this country is in the dark ages.”

“Expect the paint not to bubble on a $200 million aircraft, when you have ordered 10 of them? God, are these people ever satisfied.”

*edited to correct order number.

ex_pat
ex_pat
6 years ago
Reply to  Restie

Don’t understand the point you’re trying to make.

I haven’t seen Etihad or Emirates or any other airline complaining, certainly not so publicly.

My point focuses on QR (read AAB), not the country.

Restie
Restie
6 years ago
Reply to  ex_pat

Try reading the article and you will find that Skymark Airlines, a Japanese carrier, also complained of the interiors of the A380 and is facing a 6 month delay.

ex_pat
ex_pat
6 years ago
Reply to  Restie

I read it. I’d recommend you look at their A380 order book, and QR’s for that matter, then compare to other carriers.

Whilst we’re on recommending reading properly, have a look at the part in my last post where it talks about complaining publicly.

Restie
Restie
6 years ago
Reply to  ex_pat

They ordered 10 firm, rather than 60. I consider myself corrected. Does this mean their interiors should be of a lesser quality?

And here is where Skymark ‘complains publicly’:

“(Finance Director) Arimori blamed the cabin interior supplier, which Skymark declined to identify.”
http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/06/13/skymark-airlines-airbus-idUSL4N0OU2TN20140613

Here is where Emirates ‘complains publicly’:

Emirates, the A380’s biggest customer with 43 planes on order, called the new delay a “serious issue” and said it would “review its options”.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/5405524.stm

Complaints against Airbus delays are nothing new and widespread.

ex_pat
ex_pat
6 years ago
Reply to  Restie

Ha ha! Thank goodness for Google eh?

Al Baker gets more coverage as he is basically rent-a-quote. No doubt other carriers have problems with Airbus and Boeing, but they conduct their business in a more dignified manner.

My thesis is that Al Baker is quite happy to shout and scream, as it deflects from more serious questions such as profitability. The more aircraft they order (with bigger capacity), the more they have to fill. Can they do so profitably? Highly doubtful, this is the airline business after all.

Andrew
Andrew
6 years ago
Reply to  Restie

From what I’ve read, the Skymark Airlines A380 deliay isn’t related to Airbus, it’s related to user purchased interior fitouts. The airline isn’t blaming Airbus, and Airbus isn’t taking responsibility.

In the case of Qatar Airways, AAB is blaming Airbus, so it’s a bit of a different scenario in my view.

A_qtr
A_qtr
6 years ago
Reply to  Restie

looooooooooooooooooooooooooool…. im an expat… waaah waaah waaah (baby crying)

Michael Fryer
Michael Fryer
6 years ago
Reply to  ex_pat

Emirates reported its 26th consecutive profitable year in 2013/2014. It delivered a profit of 3.3 billion AED, a 42% increase in profit compared to the previous year.

I get the feeling Emirates might be more motivated to take delivery of aircraft and make a profit, rather than worrying about the color of the floor of the galley, or whether the new airport marble is shiny enough.

Qatar Airways is happy to boast about their operations, but never release their financial results. I interpret this to mean that their balance sheet is nothing to boast about.

Expat Girl
Expat Girl
6 years ago
Reply to  Michael Fryer

This is what it all comes down to, you hammered the nail on the head here.

ex_pat
ex_pat
6 years ago
Reply to  Michael Fryer

Spot on.

Never ceased to amaze me when QR go out with these big aircraft orders and new route announcements.

They’re one of the cheapest carriers in the market, delivering an expensive product.

Airlines make their money through point to point traffic at the front of the aircraft. Doha is a small market, as typified by the absence of foreign carriers flying in. As we all know, QR carry lots of connecting traffic, and they don’t pay much compared to equivalent journeys with the likes of Emirates.

I’d like to see QR get it’s own house in order rather than constantly moan at Airbus, Boeing, or the hundreds of other suppliers that disappoint His Excellency (!)

Restie
Restie
6 years ago

‘Exacting specifications?’ If someone is paying $200+ million a piece, I think they can reasonably expect no bubbles in the paint and gaps in the flooring.

So much for the much touted European quality. I’d like to see an Asian conglomerate start making large commercial aircraft.

McTunder
McTunder
6 years ago
Reply to  Restie

The new airport of Doha is largely built by workes from Asia. Should I say more? The quality is lousy to put it mildly. Thanks, but no thanks to an indian or similar aircraft! It would be windy inside, that’s for sure…

samesamebutdifferent
samesamebutdifferent
6 years ago
Reply to  Restie

As a Pilot I bloody wouldn’t. There are Asian manufacturers, Like Sukhoi.

*Cough* who’s brand new aircraft crashed on a demonstration flight *cough*. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mount_Salak_Sukhoi_Superjet_100_crash

A_qtr
A_qtr
6 years ago

Lol did you even read your own source….

The link says the plane was manufactured two years prior to the crash with over 800 flight hours .. It was built in Russia! Not Asia…

The crash was due to the captain and crew members ignoring flight warnings of mountain terrains up ahead … They turned off the warning system thinking it was a wrong reading and flew smack into a mountain

samesamebutdifferent
samesamebutdifferent
6 years ago
Reply to  A_qtr

Russia is in Asia.

I think you will find the GPWS in Boeing and Airbus aircraft would have worked with the FBW (All Airbus, all Boeing since the late 90’s) control system to force the aircraft up and away from terrain. Alarms can be extinguished but without pulling circuit breakers you can’t stop the aircraft temporarily blocking control from the pilot and flying the aircraft itself to exit a scenario it thinks will cause an accident.

You will find no such protection on Asian manufacturers like Sukhoi, Antonov, Ilyushin, Chengdu etc.. because they are cheap options.

A_qtr
A_qtr
6 years ago

Ah yes Russia is Asia … Seriously man I don’t want you piloting any plane I’m on

samesamebutdifferent
samesamebutdifferent
6 years ago
Reply to  A_qtr

“Extending across the entirety of northern Asia and much of Eastern Europe, Russia spans nine time zones and incorporates a wide range of environments and landforms.”

Please stop embarrassing yourself.

A_qtr
A_qtr
6 years ago

No way man.. You use google and can wiki… And fly a plane …. High five…

“Russia has its historical core as well as most of its population (74%), economic activity and political institutions (such as its capital city) in Europe, yet geographically most of the territory (77%) is actually in Asia. By most definitions, Russia straddles Eurasia.”

“The nation’s history began with that of the East Slavs, who emerged as a recognizable group in Europe between the 3rd and 8th centuries AD.[12]”

“European Russia (also Western Russia or Central Russia) refers to the Western areas of Russia that lie within Europe, comprising roughly 3,960,000 square kilometres (1,528,560 mi2) and spanning across 38% of Europe. Its eastern border is defined by the Ural Mountains and in the south, it is defined by the border with Kazakhstan. This area includes Moscow and Saint Petersburg, the two largest cities in Russia.

Roughly 77% of the entire Russian population (about 110,000,000 people out of a total of circa 143,000,000) lives in Western Russia, at an average of 27 persons per km2 (69.9 per mi2).[1]:6[1]:10 Even though 75% of Russia’s territory lies within Asia, the Asian part of Russia accommodates only 22% of its population at 2.5 persons per km2 (6.5 per mi2).[1]:6

A_qtr
A_qtr
6 years ago
Reply to  A_qtr

Shall I go on embarrassing myself? Russia plays in EUFA not AFC qualified to World Cup as a European nation not Asian.. Hosting WC as European country not Asia….. But what do I know.. I don’t fly planes

samesamebutdifferent
samesamebutdifferent
6 years ago
Reply to  A_qtr

You are trying your best to.

The Russian FA electing to play in Europe does not hide the fact that 13,115,200 km of Russia is in Asia, which is 77% of it’s land mass.

Nor studied Geography at School apparently.

http://www.worldatlas.com/webimage/countrys/asia/ruas.gif

Kingpin
Kingpin
6 years ago
Reply to  A_qtr

So do Kazakhstan, Israel and Turkey.

AEC
AEC
6 years ago
Reply to  A_qtr

It’s also a member of APEC – So what? Can’t it just be both Asian & European?

samesamebutdifferent
samesamebutdifferent
6 years ago
Reply to  A_qtr

What does ethnic origin of it’s population and population density have to do with anything!?
3/4 of it’s terrain is in Asia!

Chill out and take a look at what you’re to trying to argue man, you look mental.

A_qtr
A_qtr
6 years ago

You go by where the capital of a country is located and it’s population is located not how big and far it stretches… I’m not pulling this from my behind… Russia is officially recognized as a European nation not Asian…

samesamebutdifferent
samesamebutdifferent
6 years ago
Reply to  A_qtr

Right ok, when it is decided what continent a country is in you go by where its population is located, and not where the land mass physically is on the Earth’s surface.

Someone had better tell Garmin, they need to produce some new maps!

Expat Girl
Expat Girl
6 years ago
Reply to  A_qtr

Not only that, but the plane being discussed was made in the “European Russia”, north of Moscow, so that even more proves your point.

AEC
AEC
6 years ago
Reply to  A_qtr

“officially”?

Philptom
Philptom
6 years ago

As you told asian flights used cheap options, until now those using high quality options didn’t made any accidents? so don’t simply speak foolishness

Restie
Restie
6 years ago

True, I’ve heard notorious stories of Russian planes, but Asia is large enough that I was hoping this discussion would go towards Mitsubishi, Samsung, Chengdu or even Rafael.

A_qtr
A_qtr
6 years ago
Reply to  Restie

Or Singapore… The original post was in the context of China, Japan, Korea or Singapore.. Not the inhabitable part of Serbian russia

samesamebutdifferent
samesamebutdifferent
6 years ago
Reply to  A_qtr

Serbian Russia?

That is the Serbia that is a western European country just south of Hungary, and has 1500 km separating it and Russia, no?

A_qtr
A_qtr
6 years ago

I concede Russia is Africa not Europe …. Or was it Asia

A_qtr
A_qtr
6 years ago

Come we go to Russia

AEC
AEC
6 years ago

Wouldn’t that make it eastern europe?

samesamebutdifferent
samesamebutdifferent
6 years ago
Reply to  Restie

All brand new in the industry so it will take a few years to make a proper comparison and evaluation with western aircraft.

Let’s be honest though, the likes of Chengdu copy verbatim western designs. The ‘new’ COMAC airliner is basically the MD80, they even use sold off McDonald-Douglas manufacturing equipment. The difference is they do it cheaply with an unproven workforce in a country not known to be the bastion of production quality and reliability.

I would give these manufacturers a wide berth until they are a bit more proven. Saying that, the Japanese MRJ looks promising, even though it looks a teensy bit too similar to the ERJ175/195 for Embraer’s lawyers liking.

Myrddin
Myrddin
6 years ago
Reply to  Restie

Apparently, not bubbles. A slightly different texture?

I haven’t been able to get info on the flooring so far, but as it is galley flooring (therefore not subject to the scrutiny of the Five Star passenger) the only concern would be airworthiness, which I don’t imagine would be compromised.

Guest
Guest
6 years ago
Reply to  Restie

Like the wonderful Xian MA60?

johnny wang
johnny wang
6 years ago

Perhaps this aircraft makers have a system in place and will not cut corners to deliver a shoddy product no matter who the receiver is at the other end or no matter the delays involved because later on they are aware the same customer maybe blaming the aircraft manufacturers for delivering a unsafe aircraft

Michael Fryer
Michael Fryer
6 years ago

The roll out date for the first Qatar Airways A380 (reg. F-WWST) was 8 July 2013. The roll out date for the most recent A380 to fly (Emirates, reg. F-WWAN) was 10 January 2014. How is it that planes that are rolling out 6 months after the Qatar Airways plane are already flying?

How is that after manufacturing the QA A380, Airbus has gone on to deliver aircraft, which are now in service for Emirates (9 more aircraft) British Airways (3 more aircraft) Lufthansa (2 more aircraft) and Asiana (1 aircraft).

It doesn’t seem very convincing to me that Airbus has managed to make 3 planes for Qatar Airways which are all defective/deficient, while at the same time 15 aircraft have been delivered to 4 different airlines, all of whom have successfully started flying them.

Either the standards are much higher at Qatar Airways, or there someone isn’t telling the whole truth.

Andrew
Andrew
6 years ago
Reply to  Michael Fryer

Etihad launched the A380 suites and Residence on May 3. By the following day, and without any anticipation from industry analysts, Emirates President Tim Clark announced that his airline would also be introducing ‘flying bedrooms’ with expectations of ticket prices of $26,000 between Dubai and New York.

http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052702303417104579541673159422600

If Qatar Airways isn’t using this period to rip out the First Class it had planned, and replace it with a product to rival what Etihad has launched, and Emirates will launch, I will be very surprised.

AEC
AEC
6 years ago
Reply to  Andrew

Whereas the sensible thing would be to get the things into the air and ask your next ones to have extra gold and diamonds slapped on them. I find it hard to believe people really care about all that rubbish anyway – unless there is something seriously wrong with them.

Expat Girl
Expat Girl
6 years ago
Reply to  Michael Fryer

I can almost guarantee what happened here, Qatar is changing/revising the specs after the thing is built. Instead of really reviewing and understanding at the design phase where changes are easy to implement, they wait until they see it built and THEN decide they want “higher standards” or something else. If Qatar’s “higher standards” were consistent all along, then Airbus would have built it those higher standard specs from day 1.

This is obviously just my speculation, but it’s my speculation after witnessing this exact phenomenon on other projects for Qatar.

Kingpin
Kingpin
6 years ago
Reply to  Expat Girl

No, Never. Someone in Qatar changing specs when the contract is 90% complete!. I refuse to believe it.

Expat Girl
Expat Girl
6 years ago
Reply to  Kingpin

I know it’s shocking… it’s like finding out for the first time that Santa Clause doesn’t exist, but I promise, with proper therapists you will recover.

AEC
AEC
6 years ago
Reply to  Expat Girl

Making your mind up as you go along is not really “standards”.

smd
smd
6 years ago

This from the same
gentlemen, that was likely instrumental and also equally vocal about blaming
others for a 5 year delay in delivering his own country’s new airport. The
world is a complex place and sometimes blame alone does not deflect the more
enlightened on the more likely reality of such delays and related events 🙂

A_qtr
A_qtr
6 years ago

it seems like Qatar is trying to leverage its negotiations with Airbus by threating to not order any additional planes and going to Boeing instead.

if I had my say I’d buy more Boeing, Americans deliver a far superior product than the Europeans can ever put together… Airbus might as well be produced by the Chinese….

If only Americans can build cars as good as they build planes

samesamebutdifferent
samesamebutdifferent
6 years ago
Reply to  A_qtr

” if I had my say I’d buy more Boeing, Americans deliver a far superior product than the Europeans can ever put together… Airbus might as well be produced by the Chinese…. ”

What a load of utter crap, you have no idea what you are talking about.

Furthermore, FYI Boeing have their own factory in China called Boeing Tianjin Composites.

A_qtr
A_qtr
6 years ago

Your post is the utter crap… The link you posted said something completely different than your post.. Clearly you don’t know what your taking about… What airline do you fly for ?? So I can avoid it…

And yes Americans build way greater planes then Europeans ever will

samesamebutdifferent
samesamebutdifferent
6 years ago
Reply to  A_qtr

Yes, my 5500 hour backed ATPL, CPL, and IET accredited B. Eng degree in Aerospace Engineering from the University of Manchester clearly means I have no idea what I’m talking about when it comes to aviation.

I would love for you to try that argument on pprune.org (a Pilot’s forum) or perhaps to an airline pilot face to face, you would get torn apart.

If we’re going to do this on an infantile level, Airbus have had 72 incidents to Boeing’s 218.

In the last ten years Airbus have delivered 8559 aircraft to Boeing’s 4458, from 8933 to 8428 orders.

Despite the fact that Airbus outsells Boeing which should you give some indication of who manufactures “way greater planes” by way of customer choice, there is no better manufacturer. They are held to the same ICAO standards. They are manufactured by the same methods. The aircraft are not completely different. The “Boeing is better than Yurop planes hurrr” argument is pretty embarrassing really.

A_qtr
A_qtr
6 years ago

Still American build better planes.. Go Boeing

Myrddin
Myrddin
6 years ago
Reply to  A_qtr

“.. go Boeing” ?

There is a possibility that declaration just might come back (in DN comments) to haunt you some day?

Expat Girl
Expat Girl
6 years ago
Reply to  A_qtr

I like your spirit!! I’m with you!!

AEC
AEC
6 years ago
Reply to  A_qtr

Ha ha ha – so obviously wrong and yet so determined. You tell ’em!

ex_pat
ex_pat
6 years ago
Reply to  A_qtr

Laughable. They build good planes, but to suggest better – please.

QR would appear to think they build better planes. 320 does all their shorthaul, no 737’s. 330 bit of a workhorse, but they have more of those than the 787’s (including orders but not options). 777 obviously popular, but they’ve still gone for the 380 over the 748 and the 350 over stretch versions of the 787.

All in all, I’d say they’re quite happy with Airbus product quality.

Horses for courses.

Andrew
Andrew
6 years ago
Reply to  A_qtr

If Qatar Airways is so disappointed with Airbus, I wonder why they agreed to be the launch customer of the A350, and place a firm order for 80 of them?

Qatar Airways was also equally angry at Boeing back in 2012 when their planes were grounded, and AAB was threatening Boeing for compensation etc etc.

And who can forget Al Baker’s famous quotes from 2009:
“Unfortunately Boeing has lost its leadership,” Al Baker said. “The mess with this (787) program could have been corrected a long time ago. If they had correctly focused management, they could have seen this coming.”

When asked if he’d take the job as CEO at Boeing if it were offered to him, Al Baker said: “I would take it and a lot of heads would roll. Just like it my airline. … People must deliver.”

And by the way, it’s a stretch to say the 787 is manufactured in the USA. It is assembled in Washington, with imported Japanese wings, Italian and Korean stabilizers, French doors, Indian floor beams, French wiring, Korean wingflaps and longerons, and UK/French landing gear all stuck on to a fuselage made from components originating in Italy, Japan, US and South Korea.

samesamebutdifferent
samesamebutdifferent
6 years ago
Reply to  Andrew

Spot on Andrew. The aircraft manufacturing industry is an excellent example of globalisation and division of labour, the logistics of it all are mind boggling. I wouldn’t want to be the guy co-ordinating the A380 project, trying to roll two A380 fuselages through tiny French villages on their way to Toulouse twice a month, never mind procuring from about 30 manufacturers on the 787 project.

smd
smd
6 years ago

This from the same
gentlemen, that was likely instrumental and also equally vocal about blaming
others for a 5 year delay in delivering his own country’s new airport. The
world is a complex place and sometimes blame alone does not deflect the more
enlightened on the more likely reality of such delays and related events 🙂

Myrddin
Myrddin
6 years ago

Compose an amusing 200 word short story, using the following words and phrases:

Cot, teddy, throw, dummy, spit, bigger discount, threat, tantrum.

Chris
Chris
6 years ago

What I love most about this is the total hypocrisy. QR’s “exacting standards” would still have Doha Airport closed. The business and first class lounges are still closed, and QR refused to open the airport until they were ready…until they were forced to by the QCAA. Basically, a further 6 months delay from Airbus is enough to throw a hissy fit about, but a multi-year delay from QR itself should be duly ignored. What was it AAB said when asked to account for the total incompetency and the multitude of delays? Something along the lines of not dwelling on the past and moving forward?? Yeah..so how about those lounges then…oh, still not finished!

Expat Girl
Expat Girl
6 years ago
Reply to  Chris

Well said!! I think the root cause of this is that any delay relating to work for QA seems to be attributed to QA (unclear specs, changing specs, poor management, improper planning for permitting etc.) but obviously Qatar will not attack internally (the airport), but they are quite happy to do so with EVIL Airbus.

dubious
dubious
6 years ago
Reply to  Expat Girl

And paying for all these changed minds is pushing up ticket prices, which the rest of the ME airline price fixing cartel are eating up!

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6 years ago
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